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	<title>Comments on: The Vicar and the Choirmaster</title>
	<atom:link href="http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/</link>
	<description>The eternal comprehensibility of beauty</description>
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		<title>By: Phil Wilson</title>
		<link>http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-707</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-707</guid>
		<description>Hi David, and thanks for the link. I&#039;ll be sure to check it out over the coming break (which is also conference season down here in NZ!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David, and thanks for the link. I&#8217;ll be sure to check it out over the coming break (which is also conference season down here in NZ!).</p>
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		<title>By: David Corfield</title>
		<link>http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-692</link>
		<dc:creator>David Corfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2007 18:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-692</guid>
		<description>Regarding that Mykonos meeting, there was a successor of a slightly different nature held in Delphi this July, reported &lt;a href=&quot;http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2007/07/delphic_inspiration.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. Some volumes of papers and interviews will appear at some point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding that Mykonos meeting, there was a successor of a slightly different nature held in Delphi this July, reported <a href="http://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2007/07/delphic_inspiration.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Some volumes of papers and interviews will appear at some point.</p>
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		<title>By: An aegrotat from all exams? &#171; Phil Wilson&#8217;s Mathematics Weblog</title>
		<link>http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-547</link>
		<dc:creator>An aegrotat from all exams? &#171; Phil Wilson&#8217;s Mathematics Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-547</guid>
		<description>[...] or Surcharge? &#171; The Magic Weblog of EDGARS on 17=evil.Phil Wilson on 17=evil.Phil Wilson on The Vicar and the&#160;Choirmasteredgarsr on The Vicar and the&#160;ChoirmasterDavid Corfield on The Vicar and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] or Surcharge? &laquo; The Magic Weblog of EDGARS on 17=evil.Phil Wilson on 17=evil.Phil Wilson on The Vicar and the&nbsp;Choirmasteredgarsr on The Vicar and the&nbsp;ChoirmasterDavid Corfield on The Vicar and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Wilson</title>
		<link>http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-533</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 20:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-533</guid>
		<description>Hello everyone.

David, thanks very much for your concise answer which is absolutely correct. Moreover, I&#039;m delighted to have you comment on this blog for a number of intersecting reasons. Firstly, because I think your work is very interesting. Secondly and serendipitously, I note from your webpage that you attended the &quot;Mathematics and Narrative&quot; conference on Mykonos, which has been reported in &lt;em&gt;Nature&lt;/em&gt; and which I have been enthusing my colleagues about. Thirdly, and perhaps most trivially (or perhaps not) we both work at a &quot;University of Canterbury&quot;, albeit antipodally (and with a &quot;Kent at&quot; inserted, in your case) :)

edgarsr, I suppose that the assumption that the choirmaster and the vicar would know each other&#039;s ages is a &quot;hidden fact&quot;. Vicars and choirmasters usually work quite closely and so would know each other reasonably well. But perhaps the church-based setting of this puzzle is too old-fashioned now.

Does anybody have any suggestions for updating this puzzle to a modern setting?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello everyone.</p>
<p>David, thanks very much for your concise answer which is absolutely correct. Moreover, I&#8217;m delighted to have you comment on this blog for a number of intersecting reasons. Firstly, because I think your work is very interesting. Secondly and serendipitously, I note from your webpage that you attended the &#8220;Mathematics and Narrative&#8221; conference on Mykonos, which has been reported in <em>Nature</em> and which I have been enthusing my colleagues about. Thirdly, and perhaps most trivially (or perhaps not) we both work at a &#8220;University of Canterbury&#8221;, albeit antipodally (and with a &#8220;Kent at&#8221; inserted, in your case) <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>edgarsr, I suppose that the assumption that the choirmaster and the vicar would know each other&#8217;s ages is a &#8220;hidden fact&#8221;. Vicars and choirmasters usually work quite closely and so would know each other reasonably well. But perhaps the church-based setting of this puzzle is too old-fashioned now.</p>
<p>Does anybody have any suggestions for updating this puzzle to a modern setting?</p>
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		<title>By: edgarsr</title>
		<link>http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-512</link>
		<dc:creator>edgarsr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 14:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-512</guid>
		<description>OK, even I could understand this now ;) I didn&#039;&#039;t know the choirmaster knows the age of the vicar though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, even I could understand this now <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  I didn&#8221;t know the choirmaster knows the age of the vicar though.</p>
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		<title>By: David Corfield</title>
		<link>http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-509</link>
		<dc:creator>David Corfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 10:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-509</guid>
		<description>The choirmaster knows his own age, so the only way he couldn&#039;t have enough information is if there are two triples of numbers which multiply to 2450 and which add to the same answer, twice his age. 

The only two triples with this property are (49, 10, 5) and (50, 7, 7). (So he&#039;s 32.)

Now we&#039;re told that the choirmaster can distinguish between these triples on hearing a piece of information which bounds the upper age. It can only be because the choirmaster knows that the age of the vicar is 50. Any older and neither triple would be ruled out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The choirmaster knows his own age, so the only way he couldn&#8217;t have enough information is if there are two triples of numbers which multiply to 2450 and which add to the same answer, twice his age. </p>
<p>The only two triples with this property are (49, 10, 5) and (50, 7, 7). (So he&#8217;s 32.)</p>
<p>Now we&#8217;re told that the choirmaster can distinguish between these triples on hearing a piece of information which bounds the upper age. It can only be because the choirmaster knows that the age of the vicar is 50. Any older and neither triple would be ruled out.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Wilson</title>
		<link>http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-505</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 06:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-505</guid>
		<description>Hi all. 

Thanks for your answer, David. Would you like to share how you got it, then we can see if it is correct?

Edgar, no hidden facts are required (at least, no hidden facts about vicars). You might want to look at your list again. Are there other alternatives? For example, 7, 7, 50 . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all. </p>
<p>Thanks for your answer, David. Would you like to share how you got it, then we can see if it is correct?</p>
<p>Edgar, no hidden facts are required (at least, no hidden facts about vicars). You might want to look at your list again. Are there other alternatives? For example, 7, 7, 50 . . .</p>
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		<title>By: edgarsr</title>
		<link>http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-498</link>
		<dc:creator>edgarsr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-498</guid>
		<description>Sorry, what I meant was it is only known the vicar is older than 25, not certainly 49.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, what I meant was it is only known the vicar is older than 25, not certainly 49.</p>
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		<title>By: edgarsr</title>
		<link>http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-497</link>
		<dc:creator>edgarsr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-497</guid>
		<description>Maybe there is some `well known fact` not included in the exercise? For example, maybe vicars are not allowed to be older than 26.. Then the age of the vicar would be known precisely :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe there is some `well known fact` not included in the exercise? For example, maybe vicars are not allowed to be older than 26.. Then the age of the vicar would be known precisely <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: edgarsr</title>
		<link>http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-496</link>
		<dc:creator>edgarsr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://reallyhardsums.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-vicar-and-the-choirmaster/#comment-496</guid>
		<description>Well, I really can&#039;t know how would this be possible.. So, I figured out that there can be 4 possible ages for those family members to satisfy all the conditions:
1) 5, 10 and 49 years;
2) 7, 10 and 35 years;
3) 7, 14 and 25 years;
4) 5, 14 and 35 years.

So, it is only known vicar ir older than 49. Am I missing something??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I really can&#8217;t know how would this be possible.. So, I figured out that there can be 4 possible ages for those family members to satisfy all the conditions:<br />
1) 5, 10 and 49 years;<br />
2) 7, 10 and 35 years;<br />
3) 7, 14 and 25 years;<br />
4) 5, 14 and 35 years.</p>
<p>So, it is only known vicar ir older than 49. Am I missing something??</p>
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